Tuesday, October 05, 2004

Promoting Fraud

For a minute just try to imagine that you knew of a person who declared the following in March of 2001:

Should not observers and academics keep skeptical about the U.S. government's assessment of the terrorist threat? To what extent do terrorist 'experts' indirectly perpetuate this irrational fear of terrorism by focusing too much on farfetched horrible scenarios? Does the terrorist industry[1], consciously or unconsciously, exaggerate the nature and degree of the terrorist threat to American citizens?
Just as a reminder to those who forgotten already this statement was made six months prior to the most devastating terror attacks on the soil of the United States. And now most democrats are saying that America was not doing enough to prevent such horrors. Who said this? No, it wasn't Noam Chomsky. It was Fawaz Gerges, a Sarah Lawrence professor specializing in international relations of the Arab world. So what's the relevance of all this to Noam Chomsky? Well in a recent article for Khaleej Times Online Chomsky envokes some of Gerges rhetoric. Chomsky first introduces him as a "Middle East expert". Then Chomsky quotes Gerges as saying it's "simply unbelievable how the war has revived the appeal of a global jihadi Islam that was in real decline after 9-11." Apparently Chomsky isn't aware that Gerges was claiming global jihad was on the decline before 9-11 and that Gerges even went so far as to say there was a 'terrorism industry' and fears of attacks like the ones on 9-11 are 'irrational.'

The rest of the article is pure nonsense and littered with inconsistencies. For instance in the beginning of the article Chomsky claims "the most threatening document of our time is the US National Security Strategy of September 2002," then he goes on to claim that "the doctrine of the NSS" had to be "revised." Which begs the question if there is such a thing as "the most threatening document" how does it remain threatening if it is "revised?" Leaving the discrepancies aside, doesn't one expect Chomsky to actually quote from the document and prove why it is "threatening?" Is it to much to ask Chomsky to prove it? All Chomsky does is point to a quote by Colin Powell which he claims America has the "'sovereign right to use force to defend ourselves' from nations that possess weapons of mass destruction and cooperate with terrorists." Apparently to those who don't know this is the ideology behind "the most threatening document of our time." And for those of you who want to read the document in question it can be found here. In addition, what is actually written inside of it is the following, "in pursuit of our goals, our first imperative is to clarify what we stand for: the United States must defend liberty and justice because these principles are right and true for all people everywhere." This leaves one to assuming that either Chomsky believes that the doctrine of protecting "liberty and justice" is the most threatening of our time or he is hoping no one will actually read the US National Security Strategy of September 2002.

In the end what is clear is that Chomsky is just promoting fraud.

[1] Just as a side note the 'terrorism industry' is an obvious reference to the so called 'Holocaust Industry.' The theory is the belief that Jews abuse the memory of the Holocaust to promote a Zionist agenda. Apparently Gerges was trying to make a similar claim with regard to terrorism and American policy.

141 Comments:

At October 6, 2004 at 6:13 AM, Blogger LukaB said...

[Can't discuss 'the Middle East expert' and his quote since I don't know him/his work and the link you provide for his quote is a frontpagemag story which, as always, provides no link to the quote nor any context.]


"For instance in the beginning of the article Chomsky claims "the most threatening document of our time is the US National Security Strategy of September 2002," then he goes on to claim that "the doctrine of the NSS" had to be "revised."
Which begs the question if there is such a thing as "the most threatening document" how does it remain threatening if it is "revised?" Leaving the discrepancies aside, ..."

Discrepancies???
Dhimmy, do read the article again.
The NSS remains threatening (or is even more so) because the original NSS was aimed at countries who supposedly had WMDs and the 'revised' version is aimed at countries who have the capability to produce WMDs (basically anybody who doesn't agree with the US government -- sorry, anybody who does not 'defend liberty and justice').
So no discrepancies.


Or to just quote Chomsky from the article you linked to:
As Colin Powell explained, the NSS declared that Washington has a "sovereign right to use force to defend ourselves" from nations that possess weapons of mass destruction and cooperate with terrorists, the official pretexts for invading Iraq.

The obvious reason for invading Iraq is still conspicuously evaded: establishing the first secure US military bases in a client state at the heart of the world’s major energy resources.

As old pretexts collapsed, President Bush and his colleagues adaptively revised the doctrine of the NSS to enable them to resort to force even if a country does not have WMD or programmes to develop them. The "intent and ability" to do so is sufficient.

Just about every country has the ability, and intent is in the eye of the beholder. The official doctrine, then, is that anyone is subject to attack
.


Perhaps a quote from Schlesinger so there's no doubts (quoted in Hegemony or Survival):

The president has adopted a policy of "anticipatory self-defence" that is alarmingly similar to the policy that imperial Japan employed at Pearl Hrbor, on a date which, as an earlier American president sait it would, lives in infamy. Franklin D. Roosevelt war right, but today it is we Americans who live in infamy.
[LA Times, 23 March 2003]


He is referring to this part of the NSS:
The United States has long maintained the option of preemptive actions to counter a sufficient threat to our national security. The greater the threat, the greater is the risk of inaction — and the more compelling the case for taking anticipatory action to defend ourselves, even if uncertainty remains as to the time and place of the enemy’s attack. To forestall or prevent such
hostile acts by our adversaries, the United States will, if necessary, act preemptively.

The United States will not use force in all cases to preempt emerging threats, nor should nations use preemption as a pretext for aggression. Yet in an age where the enemies of civilization openly and actively seek the world’s most destructive technologies, the United States cannot remain idle while dangers gather
.[NSS, page 15; my emphasis]

This is not called pre-emptive anymore. This is called preventive. They did not use the word as preventive war is explicitly forbidden under the UN Charter to which the US is a signatory and is thus a 'supreme law of the land' [as per your Constitution].


"... doesn't one expect Chomsky to actually quote from the document and prove why it is "threatening?" Is it to much to ask Chomsky to prove it?"

He has though you are correct he did not do it in this article. And since this is something almost every mainstream expert or 'expert' (e.g. Kissinger, Ikenberry, Schlessinger) recognises and has for the past 2 years, I'm assuming he did not feel it was necessary. It was widely discussed in Foreign Affairs, for example, and I don't think you can get more mainstream than that.

Perhaps you should read Hegemony or Survival (Chomsky's book where he explains what seems to have confused you) before criticising.

'In addition, what is actually written inside of it is the following, "in pursuit of our goals, our first imperative is to clarify what we stand for: the United States must defend liberty and justice because these principles are right and true for all people everywhere." '

Another option (apart from the ones already specified above) that you missed would be:
"Our forces will be strong enough
to dissuade potential adversaries from pursuing a
military build-up in hopes of surpassing, or
equaling, the power of the United States."

Read: We will not allow others to become as militarily strong as we are now. How do you think this will be achieved?

"This leaves one to assuming that either Chomsky believes that the doctrine of protecting "liberty and justice" is the most threatening of our time or he is hoping no one will actually read the US National Security Strategy of September 2002."

There just might be some other options, no?

"In the end what is clear is that Chomsky is just promoting fraud."

Clear?
Somebody is promoting fraud but it is not Chomsky.
Have a mirror handy?

Actually, that was too harsh. I do not really think you were promoting fraud. I think you just don't know what you are talking about.


"[1] Just as a side note the 'terrorism industry' is an obvious reference to the so called 'Holocaust Industry.' The theory is the belief that Jews abuse the memory of the Holocaust to promote a Zionist agenda. Apparently Gerges was trying to make a similar claim with regard to terrorism and American policy."

Have you even read 'The Holocaust Industry' ?

 
At October 7, 2004 at 11:56 AM, Blogger Dhimmi said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At October 7, 2004 at 4:11 PM, Blogger Dhimmi said...

Luka,

You never cease to amaze me. Weren't you the one who posted a Hersh article with a bunch of anonymous sources and now you are complaining that FrontPageMag doesn't cite their sources? I think the real question here is do you have a mirror?

Anyway since you have proven that you are not so eager to do a little research here is the source:

Fawaz A. Gerges, "The Ultimate Terrorist: Myth or Reality?" Daily Star (Beirut), March 12, 2001. His book: America and Political Islam: Clash of Cultures or Clash of Interests? (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1999). (see: footnote number 56: http://www.geocities.com/martinkramerorg/IslamObscured.htm)

Now onto the NSS document. If you care to read what I wrote I said specifically:

If there is such a thing as "the most threatening document" how does it remain threatening if it is "revised?"

Which basically means how can a document be threatening if it is no longer followed even if it is for the worst? I am questioning Chomsky's logic here. As for Schlesinger you or Chomsky shouldn't be so quick to quote the man, if you recall Schlesinger has called Chomsky an "intellectual crook." Don't you find it a bit bizarre that Chomsky is quoting him? Lastly I don't see anything that you posted even remotely come close to making the NSS "the most threatening document" of "our time." That's just fluff and I am calling Chomsky on it. To put it in plain terms, it's a matter of opinion. Personally I think Osama's decreed, or Saddam's for that matter, to kill all Zionists and their American conspirators a more dangerous one. And you can take it from me I have lived under both types of governments, American and Middle Easterner, so I think I know a little bit more about that part of the world than some Linguist up at MIT.

And to answer your question yes I have read the Holocaust Industry.

 
At October 8, 2004 at 4:50 AM, Blogger LukaB said...

Dhimmi,

you are spitting in your own bowl again (Slovenian proverb).

"You never cease to amaze me. Weren't you the one who posted a Hersh article with a bunch of anonymous sources and now you are complaining that FrontPageMag doesn't cite their sources? I think the real question here is do you have a mirror?"

I hate to point this out to you but if a reporter is using anonymous sources one can hardly expect them to cite them, no?

You may claim that he's used sources that have lied in the past, that he himself is unreliable, whatever - but you cannot expect him to name is anonymous sources, can you? [I feel stupid for pointing this out but] Then they wouldn't be anonymous sources, would they?

Frontpagemag, on the other hand, cited a known author without providing a reference as to where the quote came from.

See the difference?
Or are you willfully blind?



"Which basically means how can a document be threatening if it is no longer followed even if it is for the worst?"

Dhimmy, this really is amazing.
Let me spell it out for you.

In September 2002 the Bush Administration released the NSS. For the first time in history, the US government did not use pretexts but said outright that it will stop anybody that posseses WMDs or aids terrorists (read: anybody that does not listen to what it says but has WMDs or aids terrorists) by force. Iraq was a test case for this new doctrine.

Then came the realisation tha Iraq did not and does not have WMDs. So the interpretation of the NSS was changed from '[having a] "sovereign right to use force to defend ourselves" from nations that possess weapons of mass destruction and cooperate with terrorists' to 'resort[ing] to force even if a country does not have WMD or programmes to develop them', just the "intent and ability".

So we went from an interpretation that included perhaps 20+ countries (mainly North Korea, Syria, Iran; at least in the short term) to an interpretation that includes basically all countries as all countries have the ability to develop at least chemical and biological weapons (my elementary school's chemistry lab included) and 40+ countries have the ability to develop nuclear weapons.

So the document is still followed but the interpretation of it has been 'revised' (for the worse). And the first interpretation was bad enough.


[Might as well note that stating outright that you will clobber to death anybody that doesn't agree with you is stupid.
For two reasons.
First, because it takes away the pretext (like spreading democracy) in which the population (you) wants to believe.
Second, the US has always maintained this right anyway and used when it felt it needed it but spelling it out in a document such as the NSS makes potential enemies prepare for the eventual confrontantion faster and with more resolve (why do you think that Iran is in such a hurry to develop a nuclear deterrent?). Hint: Look at what the Bush Admin. has done with the North Korea problem. Yep. Nothing. Why?]


"As for Schlesinger you or Chomsky shouldn't be so quick to quote the man, if you recall Schlesinger has called Chomsky an "intellectual crook.""


And you know perfectly well why he did so.
But it is irrelevant to the discussion (ad hominem?).

I don't see why Chomsky shouldn't quote Schlessinger or invoke his mainstream authority if they agree on a matter just because Chomsky once branded him, well, I don't remember the exact quote so let's say something similar to 'liberal totalitarian' and Schlessinger rebutted with the above quote.

It's like saying Chomsky should not quote Schlessinger saying that 1+1=2 because the latter once called him an "intellectual crook".
1+1 still equals 2.

Rather than smearing Chomksy again (this time through Schlessinger) try to deal with my arguments for a change.

"I don't see anything that you posted even remotely come close to making the NSS "the most threatening document" of "our time." That's just fluff and I am calling Chomsky on it. To put it in plain terms, it's a matter of opinion. Personally I think Osama's decreed, or Saddam's for that matter, to kill all Zionists and their American conspirators a more dangerous one."

That is your perogative and you are entitled to it. Just be aware that this is (in my opinion) an emotional and not a rational judgement. And just be aware that the whole of mainstream thought in the US (from Kissinger to Schlessinger) and the world disagrees with you on the matter (whether they agree with the NSS is another matter). They do not consider it 'a fluff' and other countries are responding to it.

A rational judgement would include an assesment of not just the rethoric but of who can 'walk the walk and not just talk the talk' so to speak.

The US has a military budget that is bigger than the military budgets of all other countries combined (or something like that; enormous anyway).
Saddam had nothing but words and intent (see the last report on WMDs in Iraq or the lack thereof).
Osama... He might still be alive but he can't do much but talk and 'inspire'.

So in the cases you (we) outlined, the US wins overwhelmingly.


"And to answer your question yes I have read the Holocaust Industry."

Why are you distorting what is says then?

 
At October 17, 2004 at 2:02 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

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At October 17, 2004 at 2:02 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

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At October 24, 2004 at 6:12 PM, Blogger Dhimmi said...

Vulgar and fool language is not prohibited on this website. Please learn how to control yourself.

 
At January 27, 2005 at 5:45 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is the purpose of saying that "Chomsky first introduces [Fawaz Gerges] as a 'Middle East expert'."? Is the implication here that Fawaz Gerges is not, in fact, an expert on the Middle East?

From his faculty webpage at Sarah Lawrence College indicates that he is an expert. For over the past 10 years he has held the position of Chairholder in International Studies Affairs and Middle Eastern studies. He has also published a number of articles related to the Middle East and been interviewed by a large number of major news agencies (e.g. CNN and the BBC).

I do not see how this could be interpreted otherwise.

 
At January 28, 2005 at 8:43 PM, Blogger Dhimmi said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At January 28, 2005 at 8:44 PM, Blogger Dhimmi said...

Never said he wasn't. The quotes are Chomsky's words. That said you can make up your own mind about a person that says terrorism is on the decline in the Arab and then the US gets hit with the biggest terrorist attack in it's history. For some reason the word expert seems to be lacking.

 
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At March 22, 2007 at 3:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This whole "let me show how Chomsky is wrong" bit will never succeed. I am one of his supporters and any confusion or hysteria you have against him can easily be cleared up by listening to his entire rationale. If you take his comments out of context and don't listen to enough of his speeches to realize his overall message, you will never completely understand - these comments jump to conclusions way too fast.

Chomsky repeatedly tells his audiences not to trust anything he is saying. Why? Because he wants ordinary citizens to read these sources and become interested in their own way - explaining every topic in deep historical detail is rationally impossible for people to grasp and understand. Also, doing the research on one's own provides a much greater impact.

The source that is being referred to is completely misrepresented.

As Colin Powell explained in the National Security Strategy (NSS) of September 2002, Washington has a "sovereign right to use force to defend ourselves" from nations that possess WMD and cooperate with terrorists.

These were the official pretexts for invading Iraq, although they completely collapsed as being not only false, but deceptive (lying, as most people would call it). There has been little attention to the consequence of this: the NSS was effectively revised to LOWER the bars for the deployment of US aggression. The need to establish ties to terror was quietly dropped in Iraq.

More significantly, Bush and colleagues declared the right to resort to force even if a country does not have WMD or even programs to develop them - The NSS explains that a country only has to have the "intent and ability" to do so. Just about every country has the ability, and intent is in the eye of the beholder. The official doctrine, then, is that anyone is subject to overwhelming attack, since it was so easy to scare Americans and attack Iraq, which wasn't even a small threat to America at the time of invasion.

The NSS has nothing to do with "liberty and justice" - those are simply words for Americans to feel comfortable with the policy without reading or analyzing it, making it sound patriotic and as if we're spreading freedom instead of hatred and violence. Documents like the NSS as well as the ACTIONS of the Administration show a completely different picture of things.

 
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